When we heard that the La Verne Live Oak board of directors were once again pushing to have a guard house installed at the lower gates, at an estimated cost of $1000.00 per home for the initial assessment, plus $80 - $100 per month additional HOA dues to keep up this guard house, a handful of homeowner’s attended the board meeting to gather more information.
We were told at that meeting in July that there was not an official gate committee formed yet, just a couple of homeowners investigating the situation, at their own expense. A homeowner at the meeting volunteered to be on the committee, and was told he could, and that unofficial-committee would contact him. He never heard from them.
It was asked of the board, by homeowners at the July meeting, that nothing be done to move forward on the guard gates until a poll was taken of all the homeowners behind the gates to see if there was even enough interest in the guard house to pursue this. The board said that they would discuss this request and take a vote amongst themselves. We heard that they agreed to send out an initial poll to all members.
In the meantime, before the August board meeting, some homeowners gathered to come up with some wording and items that they would like to see on the initial poll.
Here is the list of their suggestions:
1. Shall the LVLO HOA install a guard house with a manned 24 hour guard at the south entrance of the LVLO homes, with a camera installed at the north gate which will be controlled by the guard at the south gate, where every car will be approved before entering the complex?
2. Shall the LVLO HOA install a guard building with manned 24 hour guards at the south entrance and also the north entrance of the LVLO homes?
3. Shall the LVLO HOA improve the gates, so that they function correctly, with no adding of guard house and no guards?
4. Shall the LVLO HOA remove the gates, all together?
The reasons this group is against having a 24 hour guard at one or both gates are as follows:
Too costly
Edgewater homeowners already pay 2 association fees, $100 & $96 per month.
There is virtually no crime now behind the existing gates.
The inconvenience to come and go from our neighborhood will be monumental, with lines to get inside the gates extending out on to Esperanza.
This will not raise home values as touted, but may even deter buyers because of the excess HOA dues.
It is not the responsibility of the HOA to increase members’ home values, if so it should be done fairly to all homeowner, even outside the gates.
The guard will have no authority.
This group of homeowners also wanted to request of the board that when this is dropped, to place a moratorium on this issue, not to be brought up again for at least 10 years.
Before the August HOA meeting, the neighbors all received a letter encouraging them to attend this next meeting to let their voices be heard.
The turn out of interested homeowners was large, probably 60 to 70 people. The meeting room was too small to allow all homeowners in to even hear what was taking place in the meeting.
It was requested that there be a special meeting, inviting all homeowners, in a room large enough to accommodate everyone, in the near future and that the discussion be stopped at that time. The members were told by the board president that he was not sure he could do that, that it might not be legal.
Hopefully we will all hear something soon from Haven Management regarding the special meeting. Nadine Gump is their representative for our association.
If the board does not grant its members a special meeting, the members can get together and have their own meeting, in a large room, to discuss this matter.
Saturday, August 30, 2008
Response 8-30-08 9:45 am
Had no idea that crime was so rampit here that we need to have a guard shack and 24 hour guards. Shouldn`t we have been informed of this for our own security! Isn`t that what the HOA is required to do? I am sure this gate thing is not a security issue but possibly an ego issue......my vote is NO GUARD SHACK now or ever!!!!!
Friday, August 29, 2008
Response 8-29-08 8:35 am
Friends and Neighbors,
I feel better this morning since I have gotten compliments and encouragement from those who were there or heard about the meeting Thursday night. The attitude of the president and his friend, who acted as a sixth or seventh member of the board ( will have to include Ms Gump who shouted at me as if she were a member). No one is to speak or defend oneself if those two have the floor. Much has happened since that meeting and we are getting together another meeting, someplace big enough to handle all of those who wish to attend.
We received this email about a blog but did not know who sent it, but have since determined it to be one of us and it sounds like a good idea to have a way to communicate with everyone.
I feel better this morning since I have gotten compliments and encouragement from those who were there or heard about the meeting Thursday night. The attitude of the president and his friend, who acted as a sixth or seventh member of the board ( will have to include Ms Gump who shouted at me as if she were a member). No one is to speak or defend oneself if those two have the floor. Much has happened since that meeting and we are getting together another meeting, someplace big enough to handle all of those who wish to attend.
We received this email about a blog but did not know who sent it, but have since determined it to be one of us and it sounds like a good idea to have a way to communicate with everyone.
Thursday, August 28, 2008
Comment 8/28/08 8:00 PM
Does anyone have an explanation of how the board works and what the management company has to do with it. Was there a representative there last night? (this person was stuck in the hallway and never made it into the meeting room) If the board members do not get paid any money why would they do it? Like some politicians I guess for ego and their own $ agenda. And yet we need someone to be willing to take this job. And yet who would do it with no pay, agenda or need for ego "enhancement". It would be a thankless job because you are always going to piss somebody off.
Response 8-28 4:39 PM
I do not get to attend many board meetings, but I did attend the meeting on Wednesday night. I was very disappointed with the new chairman of the gate enhancement committee. Although I give him credit for taking the position, his attitude, speech, and departure did not impress me. I am against a silly guard shack but am open to some modest gate enhancements. I agree with the previous response that the survey should include a response for "not necessary". Furthermore, I would suggest a survey question about money. For instance, "How much would you be willing to spend, as a one time assessment, for any possible gate enhancements?" These answers could lead the committee into getting reasonable estimates and bids. Just a thought. Thanks again to the opposition for making me aware of the situation.
Welcome to the LVLO HOA Blog - Community Blog
This blog is created for La Verne Live Oak Homeowners to communicate. Right now there is a situation going on regarding gate enhancements. Much communication is taking place amongst neighbors and this blog will allow everyone to hear the discussion. Names will be removed from the comments. The source of the comments will come from the emails that are going around to the neighbors.
If you do not want your email on this blog, you can comment anonymously to have it removed.
If you would like to have your thought added to this blog, email them to: LVLOGates@gmail.com
Here is the first letter that got it all started:
ATTENTION LIVE OAK HOMEOWNERS
PROPOSED GUARD SHACK AT SOUTH ENTRANCE IS BACK!!!
Even though concerned homeowners were able to put a stop to this ill advised and extremely costly proposal twice before, quite unbelievably it’s back again.
In June we saw the cryptic term “gate enhancement” on the agenda for the June 25th meeting of the Live Oak Home Owner’s Association Board of Directors Meeting. Being somewhat familiar with the true implication of this highly evasive term, I took it upon myself to attend this meeting, and learned that the infamous guard shack proposal has once again been raised. This project would involve total demolition of the current south entrance area, erection of a guard building (complete with toilet and shower facilities and sophisticated electronic equipment), and hiring of guards to man it on a 24/7 basis. It should be noted that the north gate would only be upgraded with the installation of a video camera, which would be remotely monitored at the guard shack.
This time the madness is being proposed by realtor --, who has formed and chairs an “informal committee” consisting of himself, Live Oak Board HOA President, --, and --. The stated purpose for the formation of this committee was to develop a proposal, obtain “best case scenario” costs and “sell” the project to the homeowners. Mr. -- stated that this project is not designed to increase security within the community, but rather to increase property values. Another realtor, who also lives at the south gate, takes exception to that rationale.
While at the June meeting, I strongly voiced my opposition to this proposal but, as might be expected given the minimal details provided to homeowners in advance of the meeting, I was the only opponent in attendance. Two of the HOA board members, --- and --, live near the south gate and support the proposal.
With word of the proposal getting around the community, the July meeting was attended by many more homeowners who also voiced their strong opposition. It should be noted that, at this meeting, -- did express concern about the potential costs involved to the homeowners.
Under the draft proposal, each homeowner, regardless of location within the gates, would be responsible for paying a one-time assessment of approximately $1,000.00, and possibly more. There would also be an ongoing homeowner assessment of approximately $88.00 per month to cover the costs of guard wages, insurance, building and equipment maintenance and repair, etc. This assessment, with anticipated increases, would continue in perpetuity. When it was suggested that some homeowners living on a limited, fixed income might not be in a position to absorb the initial assessment, the “committee” suggested that a payment plan be made available.
It’s important to note that all of the guard shacks constructed at the entrances to various gated communities in north La Verne are currently empty. It’s blatantly obvious that these homeowners have found that the costs involved in maintaining guards simply doesn’t make economic sense. Add to this the extreme inconvenience to visitors and guests of homeowners in dealing with a highly controlled entrance that, admittedly, does nothing to increase security, and one must question the value and return on investment of such a proposal.
Aside from the irrational and extravagant costs to existing homeowners, it’s been noted that the monthly assessments would be a significant deterrent to potential home purchasers, making homes in the community even more unlikely to sell in these difficult economic times.
The next meeting of the Live Oak Homeowners Association is scheduled to be held on Wednesday, August 27th beginning at 7:00 PM at the La Verne Community Center at 3660 D Street, Class Room 1. Please attend this meeting to voice your opposition to this proposal. It should be noted that parking is quite limited due to ongoing sports activities at the Bonita High School fields, so it would be advisable to arrive early.
A homeowners committee has been formed to oppose this project. If you’re among those who oppose the project and you’d like to help or simply receive regular status reports.....
Meeting Results - 8/27/08
Earlier this afternoon we sent you an e-mail stating that the guard house proposal would be eliminated this evening at the Live Oak HOA meeting.
Unfortunately, that was far from the case. They have no intention of eliminating this proposal. Instead, they are continuing to press ahead with the Gate "Enhancement" Committee planning meetings, with -- as chairman, to look into all aspects of gate improvements, including the guard house. They are also looking at simply installing new gates as another option. A number of our own committee members have requested inclusion in -- committee. We requested, and the Board agreed, to hold a public meeting about this issue at a location large enough to hold everyone. At this time we do not know when this meeting will take place but all homeowners behind the gate will receive notification.
In order to speak at this meeting you will need the notify the appropriate entity shown on the notice prior to the stated meeting. You will not be able to fill out a card at the beginning of the meeting and speak at that time. The Board also has every intention of sending out a survey to let people vote on which type of gate improvement they want, i.e., replace gates, build a guard house, etc. The majority (a simple 51% of the homeowners behind the gates), must approve of one of the options presented in order for the work to proceed.
Many of you came to the meeting to show your support and some of you voiced your opposition to this proposal. We sincerely thank you for your support.
We are very disappointed at this outcome but we will continue to fight the guard house.
Response to Meeting by homeowner 8/28/08
Thank you for bringing all of this to light for people like me that only open their bills once a week and throw the other stuff out. If -- didn't live on my block, I would have just found a bill for $1000 plus dollars for a guard shack one day in my mail box.
Thoughts:
I think that people who did research on the subject should make a written statement and send it to the board/ HOA, per -- email regarding HOA's.
When the next proposed meeting is or isn't announced we need to be sure everyone is aware of when it is by letter or flyer.
A simple beginning statement about what is proposed. Not emotional, just fact. asking everyone to be there or at least stay informed, then bullet points from concerned homeowners , with authors names attributed to statement. Short statements condensed from letters sent to HOA. Nothing that could be considered libel.
At the end of letter, state that yes this letter is sent from homeowners who oppose this proposed project but please come and make up your own mind so that we the Homeowners are properly represented.
They are counting on passive people like me, that just open the letter to see if they are in violation and then throw the letter away when it says "gate enhancement". I thought that meant they were going to paint the gates.
Neighbor Response 8/28/08
To All,
Hopefully the survey the board sends out will also include an option to keep the gate as it is, if that is also a feasible option. I am not convinced that those wanting to "enhance" the gates have proven that the current gate set up actually needs to be completely torn out and replaced. And I really question this logic since for many years the idea with some has been to rebuild only the south gate, leaving the north gate as it is, and only adding a remote/guard camera system on the north gate. If the gate system is so inadequate, then I wonder why it was only the south gate that was a problem? I suspect that there is really nothing structural or mechanically wrong with either gate, and that this has nothing to do with any real need to completely replace the current gate system. Although at least now with new members added to the 'gate committee' I am confident that a more balanced review of the current gate system will be presented for association members to consider.
Many may recall that the gates were in fact altered a few years back to divide the gates (each exit and entrance side) so that there are now two swinging gates with two motors each. This was done because it was decided that with having only one large swinging gate, the weight of pulling a longer gate open on one motor alone, was too much for that motor to handle, and therefore causing too many break downs. To my knowledge that change has made the gates function much better, so I would be interested to hear once again the reason why they feel that a complete change in the current gates is warranted. And then of course the question of why if a change in the current gate system needs a 24 hour hour guard? There are so many unanswered questions about this proposal -- and stated "need to replace the gates", that I hope that those who signed up to be on the gate committee, will bring these points up.
I wasn't able to attend the meeting (I work the night shift), however from what others have said, the gate committee chairman did not seem very pleased to have to answer the concerns being raised by other members of the association. I feel that this is an unfortunate attitude for him to take, as we all share an equal interest in every proposal within this home owners association, and are all entitled to having our questions answered, and our points of view respected. It was also troubling to hear that some inappropriate comments were made in the hallway outside the meeting by a certain person, which were directed at a few our concerned homeowners who showed up in opposition to this guard gate proposal. I don't believe that type of attitude is going to help this situation, or is one that any of us needs to accept.
Thank you for allowing me to share my views on this matter. I hope others feel comfortable in doing the same... and also with discussing the matter with other neighbors not already included on this e-mail list. I feel that this is not an issue that should require people to fight over, but all points of view do need to be considered and also respected. I can say that for myself, I am not convinced that a 24 hour guard is either warranted, or a good value for our money. But with that being said, I also would not be unwilling to consider some changes/upgrades to the gate system, as long as they are logical and have been thoroughly reviewed by a fair and balanced gate committee. One open to all of our neighbors' concerns and questions, and in keeping with a good fiscal policy for the association.
Thanks again -- for providing us with this information forum, and to all the other neighbors who have shown support and interest in this issue, and also those who signed up to be on the gate committee.
If you do not want your email on this blog, you can comment anonymously to have it removed.
If you would like to have your thought added to this blog, email them to: LVLOGates@gmail.com
Here is the first letter that got it all started:
ATTENTION LIVE OAK HOMEOWNERS
PROPOSED GUARD SHACK AT SOUTH ENTRANCE IS BACK!!!
Even though concerned homeowners were able to put a stop to this ill advised and extremely costly proposal twice before, quite unbelievably it’s back again.
In June we saw the cryptic term “gate enhancement” on the agenda for the June 25th meeting of the Live Oak Home Owner’s Association Board of Directors Meeting. Being somewhat familiar with the true implication of this highly evasive term, I took it upon myself to attend this meeting, and learned that the infamous guard shack proposal has once again been raised. This project would involve total demolition of the current south entrance area, erection of a guard building (complete with toilet and shower facilities and sophisticated electronic equipment), and hiring of guards to man it on a 24/7 basis. It should be noted that the north gate would only be upgraded with the installation of a video camera, which would be remotely monitored at the guard shack.
This time the madness is being proposed by realtor --, who has formed and chairs an “informal committee” consisting of himself, Live Oak Board HOA President, --, and --. The stated purpose for the formation of this committee was to develop a proposal, obtain “best case scenario” costs and “sell” the project to the homeowners. Mr. -- stated that this project is not designed to increase security within the community, but rather to increase property values. Another realtor, who also lives at the south gate, takes exception to that rationale.
While at the June meeting, I strongly voiced my opposition to this proposal but, as might be expected given the minimal details provided to homeowners in advance of the meeting, I was the only opponent in attendance. Two of the HOA board members, --- and --, live near the south gate and support the proposal.
With word of the proposal getting around the community, the July meeting was attended by many more homeowners who also voiced their strong opposition. It should be noted that, at this meeting, -- did express concern about the potential costs involved to the homeowners.
Under the draft proposal, each homeowner, regardless of location within the gates, would be responsible for paying a one-time assessment of approximately $1,000.00, and possibly more. There would also be an ongoing homeowner assessment of approximately $88.00 per month to cover the costs of guard wages, insurance, building and equipment maintenance and repair, etc. This assessment, with anticipated increases, would continue in perpetuity. When it was suggested that some homeowners living on a limited, fixed income might not be in a position to absorb the initial assessment, the “committee” suggested that a payment plan be made available.
It’s important to note that all of the guard shacks constructed at the entrances to various gated communities in north La Verne are currently empty. It’s blatantly obvious that these homeowners have found that the costs involved in maintaining guards simply doesn’t make economic sense. Add to this the extreme inconvenience to visitors and guests of homeowners in dealing with a highly controlled entrance that, admittedly, does nothing to increase security, and one must question the value and return on investment of such a proposal.
Aside from the irrational and extravagant costs to existing homeowners, it’s been noted that the monthly assessments would be a significant deterrent to potential home purchasers, making homes in the community even more unlikely to sell in these difficult economic times.
The next meeting of the Live Oak Homeowners Association is scheduled to be held on Wednesday, August 27th beginning at 7:00 PM at the La Verne Community Center at 3660 D Street, Class Room 1. Please attend this meeting to voice your opposition to this proposal. It should be noted that parking is quite limited due to ongoing sports activities at the Bonita High School fields, so it would be advisable to arrive early.
A homeowners committee has been formed to oppose this project. If you’re among those who oppose the project and you’d like to help or simply receive regular status reports.....
Meeting Results - 8/27/08
Earlier this afternoon we sent you an e-mail stating that the guard house proposal would be eliminated this evening at the Live Oak HOA meeting.
Unfortunately, that was far from the case. They have no intention of eliminating this proposal. Instead, they are continuing to press ahead with the Gate "Enhancement" Committee planning meetings, with -- as chairman, to look into all aspects of gate improvements, including the guard house. They are also looking at simply installing new gates as another option. A number of our own committee members have requested inclusion in -- committee. We requested, and the Board agreed, to hold a public meeting about this issue at a location large enough to hold everyone. At this time we do not know when this meeting will take place but all homeowners behind the gate will receive notification.
In order to speak at this meeting you will need the notify the appropriate entity shown on the notice prior to the stated meeting. You will not be able to fill out a card at the beginning of the meeting and speak at that time. The Board also has every intention of sending out a survey to let people vote on which type of gate improvement they want, i.e., replace gates, build a guard house, etc. The majority (a simple 51% of the homeowners behind the gates), must approve of one of the options presented in order for the work to proceed.
Many of you came to the meeting to show your support and some of you voiced your opposition to this proposal. We sincerely thank you for your support.
We are very disappointed at this outcome but we will continue to fight the guard house.
Response to Meeting by homeowner 8/28/08
Thank you for bringing all of this to light for people like me that only open their bills once a week and throw the other stuff out. If -- didn't live on my block, I would have just found a bill for $1000 plus dollars for a guard shack one day in my mail box.
Thoughts:
I think that people who did research on the subject should make a written statement and send it to the board/ HOA, per -- email regarding HOA's.
When the next proposed meeting is or isn't announced we need to be sure everyone is aware of when it is by letter or flyer.
A simple beginning statement about what is proposed. Not emotional, just fact. asking everyone to be there or at least stay informed, then bullet points from concerned homeowners , with authors names attributed to statement. Short statements condensed from letters sent to HOA. Nothing that could be considered libel.
At the end of letter, state that yes this letter is sent from homeowners who oppose this proposed project but please come and make up your own mind so that we the Homeowners are properly represented.
They are counting on passive people like me, that just open the letter to see if they are in violation and then throw the letter away when it says "gate enhancement". I thought that meant they were going to paint the gates.
Neighbor Response 8/28/08
To All,
Hopefully the survey the board sends out will also include an option to keep the gate as it is, if that is also a feasible option. I am not convinced that those wanting to "enhance" the gates have proven that the current gate set up actually needs to be completely torn out and replaced. And I really question this logic since for many years the idea with some has been to rebuild only the south gate, leaving the north gate as it is, and only adding a remote/guard camera system on the north gate. If the gate system is so inadequate, then I wonder why it was only the south gate that was a problem? I suspect that there is really nothing structural or mechanically wrong with either gate, and that this has nothing to do with any real need to completely replace the current gate system. Although at least now with new members added to the 'gate committee' I am confident that a more balanced review of the current gate system will be presented for association members to consider.
Many may recall that the gates were in fact altered a few years back to divide the gates (each exit and entrance side) so that there are now two swinging gates with two motors each. This was done because it was decided that with having only one large swinging gate, the weight of pulling a longer gate open on one motor alone, was too much for that motor to handle, and therefore causing too many break downs. To my knowledge that change has made the gates function much better, so I would be interested to hear once again the reason why they feel that a complete change in the current gates is warranted. And then of course the question of why if a change in the current gate system needs a 24 hour hour guard? There are so many unanswered questions about this proposal -- and stated "need to replace the gates", that I hope that those who signed up to be on the gate committee, will bring these points up.
I wasn't able to attend the meeting (I work the night shift), however from what others have said, the gate committee chairman did not seem very pleased to have to answer the concerns being raised by other members of the association. I feel that this is an unfortunate attitude for him to take, as we all share an equal interest in every proposal within this home owners association, and are all entitled to having our questions answered, and our points of view respected. It was also troubling to hear that some inappropriate comments were made in the hallway outside the meeting by a certain person, which were directed at a few our concerned homeowners who showed up in opposition to this guard gate proposal. I don't believe that type of attitude is going to help this situation, or is one that any of us needs to accept.
Thank you for allowing me to share my views on this matter. I hope others feel comfortable in doing the same... and also with discussing the matter with other neighbors not already included on this e-mail list. I feel that this is not an issue that should require people to fight over, but all points of view do need to be considered and also respected. I can say that for myself, I am not convinced that a 24 hour guard is either warranted, or a good value for our money. But with that being said, I also would not be unwilling to consider some changes/upgrades to the gate system, as long as they are logical and have been thoroughly reviewed by a fair and balanced gate committee. One open to all of our neighbors' concerns and questions, and in keeping with a good fiscal policy for the association.
Thanks again -- for providing us with this information forum, and to all the other neighbors who have shown support and interest in this issue, and also those who signed up to be on the gate committee.
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